........”I agree with my dear friend that a good fighter will not necessarily make a good teacher. But I also think that we have to examine our limiting beliefs – stereotypes of individuals in our sport, that if they are a good fighter, then it is almost taken for granted that they cannot be a good teacher as well. We even have this ridiculous phrase – Those who can do, those who can’t teach. I find this phrase misinformed and mildly offensive, and I am sure other teachers of MuayThai do as well.
I fervently believe that you cannot teach MuayThai well if you haven’t fought using MuayThai skills. The primal experience of having to survive a full contact physical encounter with another human being using only MuayThai, leads to a deeper understanding of how and when to use those skills (N.B. hard sparring is not the same experience.). Look at Ronnie Green, Pele Nathan, Richard Smith, Oliver Harrison, to name a few in the UK ( please don’t be offended if I haven’t mentioned you or your Instructor – there are many, many more great people out there ), all excellent teachers AND fighters. They couldn’t pass on that level of knowledge if they hadn’t gained it the hard way.
Learning to communicate fighting skills is the job of the Camp’s Master. I personally have found this a most difficult task in the past. To transpose all the combat skills a fighter possesses, into knowledge they can access, understand AND communicate to others. Sometimes fighters use their skills but don’t really understand what they are doing. They act on instinct using their knowledge in a natural, impulsive way ( the way it should be applied ). The intuitive way we do things is very difficult to identify and takes experience.
Now, I suspect that we can learn almost anything – if we want to. (But of course, not everyone wants to teach.) I don’t hold with the premise that the skills of a good fighter differ from the skills of a good teacher. I think a good teacher must use knowledge developed from years of training and fighting, to help students accomplish a learning experience that will enable them to develop their own skills. ( in this sense a teacher cannot fully instruct a student from beginning to end as the fight experience is the ultimate learning outcome.) My Wife Trix doesn’t totally agree with me here, and I hope she will make her contribution to this topic (?)
I personally would not allow a student to teach others how to fight if he/she had never had that experience themselves. It makes no sense in this very dangerous sport to permit anyone without that vital, tested knowledge to instruct others in how to do it. My students/fighters go through a rigorous period of learning “how to teach” with me before I allow them to take any class at Wicker Camp”........
Mick.
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5 comments:
I'm posting from work at the moment so I'll have to be quick.
Mick's post is highly enlightening as usual and I'm glad to see
his great thoughts and ideas finally getting the well deserved
exposure to a wider audience.
I agree on the importance of experiencing (taking part in) an actual Thaiboxing contest under the rules/restrictions and freedoms set by it before being
able to teach it effectively. Can you imagine being taught to drive a car by someone who has only ever driven on a computer simulator!? The effects of being in a real situation where the consequences of getting it wrong are serious physical injuries or worse are difficult if not impossible to simulate artificially.
I also think that to teach you have to be able to communicate effectively (something that Mick does naturally and eloquently). This may include, demonstrating techniques, type of language used, facial expressions, body movements etc, all depending on who you are teaching.
It would be interesting to see comments from other instructors too.
Ali
Thank you Arjarn Mick for your article. I also found your thoughts very interesting. However, a few things came to mind; firstly, I deeply respect your belief that ‘you cannot teach MuayThai well if you haven’t fought using MuayThai skills’ but at the same time I think of great teachers and trainers in boxing for example who never fought. One such example is the late Cus D'Amato who trained the likes of Floyd Patterson and Mike Tyson. So this is why I don’t agree entirely with the computer simulator example put forward by Kru Ali.
Secondly, continuing the Art of War theme; Sun Tzu states ‘One may KNOW how to conquer without being able to DO it’.
Thirdly, of all those that train in a modern Muay Thai club, I presume only about 5 % ?) ever end up fighting – so of the others that train and are proficient to a high level do you think they should able to teach as a self-defence art but not necessarily for the ring (as I think many people learn Muay Thai for self-protection in today’s dangerous world but not to fight professionally)?
I'd love to read Trix's views on this topic.
Thank you once again for the great posts. Very thought-provoking!
"the late Cus D'Amato who trained the likes of Floyd Patterson and Mike Tyson"
That's a great example you cited in support of your view, very strong point indeed. D'Amato was hero in the field of Boxing training and coaching. I do feel though that people like that are an exception to the rule.
It's true that not everybody trains to fight and it may be only
a relatively small margin of people who actually go on to compete, but I also think not all students may wish to become instructors (similar numbers to those who want to fight).
(by the way, nice blogsite Riaz)
Ali
Hi, I don't really have time for all this, I'm a working mother you know! However, I do feel I have to comment and disagree with my husband on this matter, although not totally.
I appreciate that if an Instructor has had ring experience then they will have an additional dimension to their repertoire of teaching skills. The qualities one needs to be a good Instructor are not all the same qualities one needs to be a good fighter. I have seen many fighters who I beleive would not make good Instructors as they lack qualities such as empathy and good communication skills. However, I have seen alot more students who I think would make good Instructors but would probably not fight. I believe that some individuals may have excellent teaching skills but may not have the qualities required to get into the ring and fight. Let's not forget that there are different levels to teaching and learning.
When a complete beginner walks into the gym for his first lesson and is taught Leg Kick from an Instructor that has been training 10 years and has all the qualities of a good Instructor, and probably has thrown 1,000's of leg kicks and defended just as many in sparring, is the lack of 'ring experience' really going to hinder his ability to teach that basic technique, I think not.
Nevertheless, I do believe that if you have a student who has been training for many years and wants to compete then I can appreciate that this student must learn how to use and apply these basic skills and techniques in a 'competitive environment' from an Instructor with ring experience. This takes the student's learning experience to a different 'level' and therefore requires a higher level of experience and understanding from the Instructor.
So there you have it, don't expect too many comments as I'm far too busy!!
Trix
I think there's truth in both arguements. When I started Muay Thai, my instructor was technically brilliant - he was an obsessive about throwing techniques with precision and fluidity, and watching him shadow box was better than any ballet! As such, we were tought the techniques of Muay Thai and encouraged and inspired to aim for perfection in execution. Point that toe just a little straighter, pivot that little bit more ferociously as you deliver the bandai etc. Through light contact sparring, we learned the rhythm of Muay Thai, and how the techniques could be applied.
I won't say that because the instructor had no ring experience, we lacked the ability to put these tecniques into practice - I had 3 guys try and mug me for my phone when I was 17, and the last one standing offered me his new Reebok Classics so long as I didn't hit him again... but while it translated well into self defence against a group of scallies on the street, I would agree with Mick that the training we recieved would not have carried us through a fight in the ring against an experienced opponent.
Having moved to Wicker Camp, I have found many of the techniques to be familiar friends, but I have gained so much more insight into the application of these techniques that Muay Thai is almost a different art to me now.
So, where does that leave us? Well, I feel that it is perfectly possible to teach Muay Thai with no ring experience, and to teach it well - provided those learning are looking for a way to keep in shape, and self defence. If I were ever to decide I wanted to fight, I would be looking for a teacher with ring experience themselves.
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